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LOS ANGELES Nov 20, 2006 (AP)— Michael Richards stunned a comedy club audience, shouting racial epithets at people who heckled him during a stand-up routine.
The 57-year-old actor-comedian, best known for playing Jerry Seinfeld's eccentric neighbor Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," was performing at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood Friday night when he launched into the verbal rampage, according to video posted on TMZ.com.
The tirade apparently began after two black audience members started shouting at him that he wasn't funny.
Richards retorted: "Shut up! Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f——— fork up your a—."
He then paced across the stage taunting the men for interrupting his show, peppering his speech with racial slurs and profanities.
"You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now mother———. Throw his a— out. He's a n——-!" Richards shouts before repeating the racial epithet over and over again.
While there is some audible chuckling in the audience throughout the outburst, someone can be heard gasping "Oh my God" and various people "0oh" after Richard uses the n-word.
Richards performed the next night at the Laugh Factory without incident.
Calls to Richards' representatives were not immediately returned early Monday.
He refused to comment on-camera when reached by CNN, but the network reported that he said off-camera he felt sorry for what had happened and had made amends.
LOS ANGELES Nov 20, 2006 (AP)— Michael Richards stunned a comedy club audience, shouting racial epithets at people who heckled him during a stand-up routine.
The 57-year-old actor-comedian, best known for playing Jerry Seinfeld's eccentric neighbor Kramer on the hit TV show "Seinfeld," was performing at the Laugh Factory in West Hollywood Friday night when he launched into the verbal rampage, according to video posted on TMZ.com.
The tirade apparently began after two black audience members started shouting at him that he wasn't funny.
Richards retorted: "Shut up! Fifty years ago we'd have you upside down with a f——— fork up your a—."
He then paced across the stage taunting the men for interrupting his show, peppering his speech with racial slurs and profanities.
"You can talk, you can talk, you're brave now mother———. Throw his a— out. He's a n——-!" Richards shouts before repeating the racial epithet over and over again.
While there is some audible chuckling in the audience throughout the outburst, someone can be heard gasping "Oh my God" and various people "0oh" after Richard uses the n-word.
Richards performed the next night at the Laugh Factory without incident.
Calls to Richards' representatives were not immediately returned early Monday.
He refused to comment on-camera when reached by CNN, but the network reported that he said off-camera he felt sorry for what had happened and had made amends.
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Oh, i'm sure he is sorry. sorry he did it iin such a public forum. Just another reason for me to not watch Sienfield reruns.
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Oh i'm sure thousands of people care.
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Unsu...
<<50 years ago we'd have had you upside down with a fucking fork up your arse>>
...er....charming...suddenly Mel Gibson looks like a choir boy.
imo, you cannot come out with shit like that in anger unless you already think it. Ah well, his racist rant has killed his career (not that I knew he had one) so all is once again right with the world.
And am I the only one who actually thought that whole Seinfeld thing was a pile of unfunny crap? I cannot believe he is the US's highest paid entertainer. Maybe it's a transatlantic thing...i.e. you yanks would laugh at anything!! -
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Ha! I'm actually really disappointed by this, I loved Seinfeld!
It just makes me wonder if underneath all the public nicities, what white people are really thinking is nigger nigger nigger nigger, while they smile in my face. -
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It just makes me wonder if underneath all the public nicities, what white people are really thinking is nigger nigger nigger nigger, while they smile in my face.
Yes and no. They generally divide into two groups. In group A they trully do think nigger, nigger, nigger. This group is divided into two sub-groups (A1) is "socialized"; they work with non-whites and have colleagial interactions at work, might even have lunch with them and share a drink at the company picnic or Holiday Party. But "when the whistle blows" they get into their cars and head home to their "lily-white" existence in which the only non-whites they encounter are servants or service providers. They can then "express" their true feelings; which they think are justified and the "political correctness" prevents "anybody" from being "honest" enough to be able to say. Group (A2) are full blown Racists. They wouldn't take a job where they are forced to mix. They consider any other White who is less "race conscious" to be a nigger lover. They tell jokes and never miss a chance to inflict harm on non-whites. They will lie, cheat and steal; always blaiming the non-white victim for their acts. "They had it coming" and "well if he wasn't guilty of this, the nigger did something else" are the kind of things that they say.
The "NO" category is also divided into two major sub-groups (B1) is made up of genuine good human beings. These are the kind of people who would have aided the Underground Railroad during Slavery, went into the South and demonstrated during the Civil Rights Movement, and now will tell other Whites that crap like Michael Richards' remarks were trully racist. They have friends of all ethnicities and national origins. They have dated and sometimes marry non-whites and have interracial children. God bless them, everyone. They are a distinct minority in this society. Then there are the (B2s). They work with us live in intergrated communities and may even have some non-white friends. But.... They are "realists". They acknowledge that non-whites have HISTORICALLY had "difficulties". but they also believe that the problems that non-whites face now are their own creation. If non-whites would "get their houses in order" then there would be no problems. They know that "some" racism still exists; but its "down south" or in the mountains or somewhere they never go. When they hear racist remarks, they edit them out as being "stupid", and of course out of the ordinary. No matter how often they hear them. They wont make an issue out of jokes or comments made to them; because they dont want to be like that. They descended from the kind of whites that 50 years wouldn't go to a lynching; but had no problem living next door to a lyncher. They represent (along with the A1 types) the vast majority of whites in this country. They are the teachers that tell non-white children to "be realistic" in their ambitions. They are the jurors that believe that an accussed non-white is probably guilty, whereas an accussed white should be given the benefit of the doubt. They thought that Michael Richards wasn't funny, but his comments weren't as awful as "liberals" thought they were. -
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Unsu...
<<It just makes me wonder if underneath all the public nicities, what white people are really thinking is nigger nigger nigger nigger, while they smile in my face.>>
Interesting, that is the first thought that came into my head when I read this story. -
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Richards Got Called Out for N Word Diatribe, So Should Blacks That Use It
Earl Ofari Hutchinson
Former Seinfeld star Michael Richards quickly bowed to public pressure and apologized for his boneheaded N word laced diatribe against black customers who allegedly heckled him during his appearance at the Laugh Factory. But Richards was a soft target. He’s a white man that sprinted way over the line of racial etiquette. It was a no brainer that blacks would rage against him. They have done the same against the legion of other white celebrities, politicians and public figures that have gotten caught with their racial pants hanging down. When the predictable firestorm hits, they back peddle fast, do their mea culpas and declare they’re not racist.
The same can’t be said for the legion of black comedians and rappers that have virtually canonized the word. They sprinkle the word throughout their rap lyrics and comedy lines, and black writers, and filmmakers go through lengthy gyrations to justify using the word. During a panel discussion at the Summer Television Critics Association tour in 2005, Aaron McGruder, creator of the popular comic strip, Boondocks, defiantly told the audience that he’d use the N’ word as much as he pleased in his comic strip and in his series on the Cartoon Network’s Adult Swim. If folks didn’t like it, well tough.
McGruder and N word users and apologists serve up the lame rationale that the more a black person uses the word, the less offensive it becomes. They claim that they are cleansing the word of its negative connotations so that racists can no longer use it to hurt blacks. Comedian, turned activist, Dick Gregory had the same idea some years ago when he titled his autobiography, Nigger. Black writer, Robert DeCoy also tried to apply the same racial shock therapy to whites when he titled his novel, The Nigger Bible.
The black N word apologists tick off an endless storehouse of defenses to justify use of the word. They claim that that it is a term of endearingly or affectionately. They say to each other, "You're my nigger if you don't get no bigger." Or, "that nigger sure is something." Others use it in anger or disdain, "Nigger you sure got an attitude." Or, "A nigger ain't s…." Still, others are defiant. They say they don't care what a white person calls them since words can't harm them.
They forget, ignore or distort one thing. Words are not value neutral. They express concepts and ideas. Often, words reflect society's standards. If color-phobia is a deep-rooted standard in American life, then a word, as emotionally charged as nigger, will always reinforce and perpetuate stereotypes. It can’t be sanitized, cleansed, inverted, or redeemed as a culturally liberating word. Nigger can’t and shouldn’t be made acceptable, no matter whose mouth it comes out of or what excuse is tossed out for using it.
There are still dozens of daily examples where whites (and other non-blacks) taunt, and harass blacks by calling them nigger, spray paint the word on their homes, businesses, churches, physically assault and even murder blacks. In the FBI’s annual count of hate crimes in America, blacks still make up the overwhelming majority of victims.
The N word reigns supreme at the top of the stack as the favorite racial epithet hurled at blacks during these crimes. Even when the word isn’t used, the sentiment is that blacks are still fair game too be abused and dehumanized, and the N word reinforces that belief. The word nigger is and will always have, grotesque, and deadly meaning to them. And, even if some blacks do occasionally go off the deep end and wrongly harangue whites for using the word, maybe that’s because nigger, pricks agonizing historical and social sores.
In all fairness, a handful of black activists have waged war against the N word. There’s a website that hawks T shirts, DVDs and exhorts blacks, especially young blacks, to solemnly pledge not to use the word or patronize anyone who puts out products that use the word. Presumably that’s aimed at those rappers and writers that have turned the N word into a lucrative growth industry.
But they have been the exception. Blacks have been more than willing to give other blacks that use the word a pass. The indulgence sends the subtle signal that the word is hardly the earth-shattering, illegitimate word that black and white N word opponents brand it.
Richards gave no public hint before his profane outburst that he was a closet bigot who routinely used the word in reference to blacks. But he didn’t have too. The obsessive use of and the tortured defense of the word by so many blacks gave Richards the license to use the word without any thought that there’d be any blow back for doing it. He was terribly wrong and got publicly called out for it. The blacks that use and defend that word should be called out too. Who’s willing to do that?
Earl Ofari Hutchinson is a political analyst and social issues commentator, and the author of The Emerging Black GOP Majority (Middle Passage Press, September 2006). -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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This is probably the funniest most succinct commentary on the video.
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----- Original Message -----
From: Jm L <*******@hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 4:21 PM
Subject: FW: MSNBC.com Article: Michael Richards yells 'n' word at hecklers
check this out... watch volume at work... white boy from Seinfeld
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no additives, no preservatives, low on sodium commentary.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Why is this so complicated? When it is not.
Black people say nigga. No one else can say it. Period. We told non-black people not to call us that. What is the problem? It is our business what we say to each other. And we told whites not to say it anymore. Respect and honor that demand/request.
Why are we having a discussion about this? Honoring our request, period. That is the respectful thing to do. I don't give a damn how many times I call my homeboy a nigga, don't you call my homeboy or me a nigga. It is my business what I call my friend or family member, not yours.
The history regarding the word nigga and slavery is linked to our current demand to bury the hatchet. And this is history in the making also - the word nigga will no longer be used in public by non-blacks.
I am opposed to saying the word nigga. I think it is derogatory. White people do for the most part, respect that wish, at least in public. We have a few whites however, every now and then, that get tired of being respectful. Like Kramer.
Kramer was wrong. He knows he was being disrespectful towards black people. He is not black and therefore cannot use the word nigga. He knows this. He is not 6 years old, he is 60.
It is no black person's fault whatsoever, especially one who says nigga, that Kramer opened his big fucking mouth and said nigga, and disrespected black people. You are dead wrong for staking this position in your article.
Kramer has been trained to deal with hecklers as a stand-up comic. He has dealt with them his whole career I'm sure of it. You ignore the audience comments and continue your comedic routine. If the people did holler out, that is not enough for him to be so atrociously ugly back.
Kramer knows the code. He got tired of being respectful. Because he is mad at his fucked up life, it's now time to take it out on black people. I don't think so. -
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Al:
<"Yes and no. They generally divide into two groups.">
I have to disagree with you here. You are making the same generalizations here that you are complaining white people are making. I feel that is a problem. When we generalize it makes it easy to see people in just black and white (pun intended). Of course I am aware that you are much deeper then that so I'll just leave it at that.
Janalyn:
<"Black people say nigga. No one else can say it. Period.">
The problem is that we bombard people with the word daily. It is on the radio, it is on TV and it's us saying the word. It has returned to common usage not by the white man but rather by us. You really can't expect people to not use a word to refer to you when they hear people using it daily. Heck I even hear white people calling each other niger these days.
Personally I tend to let people know that I don't put up with that BS from anyone. black white asian or whatever. But face it we are somewhat to blame for that.
<"Kramer has been trained to deal with hecklers as a stand-up comic. He has dealt with them his whole career I'm sure of it. You ignore the audience comments and continue your comedic routine. ">
Actually any decent stand up comedian will do the same thing. The best way to put hecklers down is to insult them and make them look and feel stupid. When they realize you are in charge they generally shut up and have more respect for you. I think he chose poorly as to the form of the insult and he should have moved on after a minute at the most and just had them tossed. I know I would have.
Molly:
<"There has surely got to be more to the debate than some whites are nice, some are so-so and some and scum. ">
I have to agree with you there. The problem is that when you put people in nifty categories you can't allow for the human factor. We are not machines that only work in a couple of ways.
Janalyn:
<"No matter how you feel or think about it, whatever black people say and do to each other is our business. No one elses. If you are not welcomed to participate, do not force your way in. You will get put back in your place. ">
Here we have a person trying to see the black white issue from the black perspective and you tell her she is not welcome? It is her business as much as it is ours. It obviously is having some affect on her or she wouldn't be here joining in on our discussion. -
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Unsu...
<The problem is that we bombard people with the word daily. It is on the radio, it is on TV and it's us saying the word. It has returned to common usage not by the white man but rather by us. You really can't expect people to not use a word to refer to you when they hear people using it daily. Heck I even hear white people calling each other niger these days.
Personally I tend to let people know that I don't put up with that BS from anyone. black white asian or whatever. But face it we are somewhat to blame for that. >
We are NOT to blame when a white person or other non-black person calls us nigga. We ARE to blame when we don't check them on it and allow it to continue, when they have been told and know not to say it.
People are not stupid. They know what they are doing. Don't answer for someone else's bullshit behavior.
The message that we sent is clear. As much as we say nigga, we tell non-blacks not to say it.
This is our personal debate with this word, and we are coming to grips with it. That is why we have a problem with whites and other non-blacks saying it.
Let's not get too logical here. This is not a logical issue. It is quite emotional/irrational. And that is what being human is all about. So saying nigga is no one else's concern. They got the instructions at the door.
<Here we have a person trying to see the black white issue from the black perspective and you tell her she is not welcome? It is her business as much as it is ours. It obviously is having some affect on her or she wouldn't be here joining in on our discussion.>
Since we want to act like we didn't know what I was talking about.....
What is (possibly) WELCOMED:
If any non-blacks have some information they would like to offer that could possibly aid in this journey of discovery, then provide it.
But I don't think they give a damn, and they shouldn't. They just can't stand to hear that "inhumane" word when it pops up!
What is NOT WELCOMED - whites and non-blacks calling black people nigga, especially in public (what you do behind closed doors is YOUR business).
The only thing that whites and other non-blacks need to be concerned with is the instructions they got crystal clear, and that is not to say nigga, especially to a black person in public, like ya boy did.
<Actually any decent stand up comedian will do the same thing. The best way to put hecklers down is to insult them and make them look and feel stupid. When they realize you are in charge they generally shut up and have more respect for you. I think he chose poorly as to the form of the insult and he should have moved on after a minute at the most and just had them tossed. I know I would have. >
Oh he just got pissed at niggas...nothing else to that buddy...he wanted to hang niggas upside down and stick a fork up niggas's asses way before he walked in that door to do his standup routine.
But that's not the real problem. I'm not surprised by that sentiment. This is nothing new in america. The real probem is HE SAID IT, REPEATEDLY, OUT LOUD, ATTACKING BLACK PEOPLE.
SO HE NEEDS TO BE BITCH SLAPPED BACK TO WHERE HE CAME FROM.
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11/26<"Let's not get too logical here. This is not a logical issue. It is quite emotional/irrational. And that is what being human is all about. So saying nigga is no one else's concern.">
Well in this I guess we will simply have to agree that we both disagree with both the use of the word and who should be "allowed" to say what.
as for not being logical, if you just allow you emotions to crowd any issue then your not dealing with anything, just making a lot of noise.
<"People are not stupid. They know what they are doing. Don't answer for someone else's bullshit behavior. ">
Err... obviously people are stupid or this issue whould never have come up. He made a stupid mistake. That is not a sign of a MENSA applicant.
<"Since we want to act like we didn't know what I was talking about.....
What is (possibly) WELCOMED:
If any non-blacks have some information they would like to offer that could possibly aid in this journey of discovery, then provide it.
But I don't think they give a damn, and they shouldn't. They just can't stand to hear that "inhumane" word when it pops up!
What is NOT WELCOMED - whites and non-blacks calling black people nigga, especially in public (what you do behind closed doors is YOUR business). ">
Obviously, I didn't know what you were talking about. Actually in the context you stated things before it looked like a personal attack at Molly. As is typical, when you type out words people can not read between the lines and when they try they are often wrong. To be honest it is a white issue as well. When we call each other niger then they get the misperception that they can use it to refer to us. Then when we check them they are at a loss. How is something positive when we use it but negative when they use it?
<"Oh he just got pissed at niggas...nothing else to that buddy...he wanted to hang niggas upside down and stick a fork up niggas's asses way before he walked in that door to do his standup routine. ">
Having done much stage performance, as I said, what he did was a typical style of dealing with hecklers. You insult them, that he used race was a poor choice. That he has had a problem with blacks is obvious. In life we all have many choices to make some are higher and some are lower. He made a low choice and is paying the price. Don't make the mistake of thinking that I agree with what he said. All I am doing is pointing out how you deal with hecklers in that type of stage performance. You had stated that he should have ignored them and I was mearly pointing out that you do not ignore hecklers.
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<"Yes and no. They generally divide into two groups.">
I have to disagree with you here. You are making the same generalizations here that you are complaining white people are making. I feel that is a problem. When we generalize it makes it easy to see people in just black and white (pun intended). Of course I am aware that you are much deeper then that so I'll just leave it at that.
I can see the division into only two groups (with innumerable sub-groups). One group does think nigger, nigger, nigger and the other doesn't. What other group do you perceive? Those that only sometimes think nigger, nigger, nigger fall into the group that does and those that never do fall into the group that don't.
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Unsu...
Al, while your A1-B2 catagorisation of white people is not inaccurate the same categories can be applied to any race. You are just categorising human beings. Black people can be equally categorised. Those that dont see colour as any form of barrier and intermarry, interbreed etc., those that get along fine with their white colleagues and neighbours but given the choice prefer to <stick with their own kind> and those that hate whitey, consider him a lower life form and blame all the wrongs of the world on him.
There has surely got to be more to the debate than some whites are nice, some are so-so and some and scum.
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"Black people can be equally categorised."
This statement couldn't be truer.
Race and racism in America has got to be the most complicated, fucked up social phenomena to emerge in any society in a long time.
It operates on institutional, social, and personal levels. We all participate in the maintenance of this race complexity to one degree or another if by only failing to have absolute, clear and honest conversations about it. Its dimensions are so vast that no one conversation can encompass its entirety. This is where we lose out because in order to plumb its depths we would have to have these conversations on a sustained basis. Most people don't have that kind of psychological or emotional stamina. Most people ususally regress to some level of anger, rage, indignation, frustration, denial or avoidance long before all of the honest ideas are even on the table.
Me, I'd say I fall into a combination of categories depending on how I feel and what life experience I let influence me at any given time. There are times when I am totally humanistic and the whole race thing is like bile in my gut. Other times I feel like I can't stand whitely when I think about white privilege (and the general unwillingness to acknowledge it), when I think about our history as an African diaspora in the west, etc, etc. Some days I want to be around as many people who are different than me as I can possibly find... other times I crave all-black all day. Go figure... the shit ain't easy to decipher and I generally refuse reductionist definitions of peoples' stance on race primarily because I know that there are multiple forces that influence us all.
Here is a scenario...
The white guy who grew up in an international/multi-racial environment may be cool until the day the thugged out brotha decides to jack him for his iPod and the next day he has another unfortunate encounter with someone black. Now everytime he sees a young black man he has that knee-jerk reaction of fear and maybe even loathing that is then reinforced by media portrayals of black men. On the one hand he has black friends, on the other hand they are now the only blacks he is willing to trust. Part of his dysphoria regarding blacks is due to the evolutionary forces that drive him to avoid perceived danger (the potential thug), part of it is conditioning (sensation new broadcasts that feature black men only when they are fucking up and the assinine rap videos that serve as their perfect accompanist). On the other side his inner turmoil heightened by his long experience of embracing diverse people. So maybe he doesn't call blacks 'nigger', but maybe instinctively, almost unconciously, he denies the young black man (with a stellar business plan) a business loan at the bank where he works based solely on a gut feeling that the risk is too high. What happens when this becomes a pattern and his black co-worker (with whom he gets along famously) calls him on it. He protests... parades his multi-culti photo album around as exhibit 'A'... then goes on to defend his actions as just.
Not a perfect analogy, but certainly one that hits on many points relevant to many of our lives. I could have just as easily made our protagonist black, or native, or Asian, or Latino with the antagonists being of any other ethnic group. Point is we want to reduce the conversation into easy to digest bite and that usually is the beginning of the end... cause the shit just ain't that simple.
Kramer is a jackass...
now THAT is simple.
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Molly I believe that you are certainly one of the B category white folk {said laughing with a smile}. I sense your honest desire for clarity and amity. But I also sense your defensiveness. I recognize how difficult it is to be white in this particular forum so I laud your attempt to do so.
I also agree with you about catagorisation of any people. I also agree that Black people can be just as easily categorized. However; I feel that I must point out that your statement, "There has surely got to be more to the debate than some whites are nice, some are so-so and some and scum", while completely true is somewhat off target in that I was not engaging in a debate, only responding to the inital statement, "It just makes me wonder if underneath all the public nicities, what white people are really thinking is nigger nigger nigger nigger, while they smile in my face."
In all fairness I must admit that there are Black people who are thinking; cracker MF, cracker MF, cracker MF when they smile in a white person's face. Race in America is one of the most complex collections of issues ever assembled. Since you approach this matrix from an entirely different culture, let me try and help you understand what we are all experiencing as Black people, which we all sense (believe) that Whites are feeling. We have (all of us as families, if not as individuals) personal experiences of being cheated and harmed because of the condition of our birth. We have all endured being denied opportunity and have been misjudged and mistrusted because of only how we look. White people have control of the institutions and mechanisms that perpetuate these situations. White people further know these things to be true. Whites knowing these things to be true either refuse to acknowledge that these situations exist, minimize the impact on the lives of Black people; stating that we must take responsibility for all aspects of our condition, or actively perpetuate the preceeding. We are senstized to these racial matters in ways that you as a white woman never can be. That is because you will never be on this side of the line. You will always be seen as a white woman and receive the full benefit of being white in this culture.
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IT depends, and its hard to tell. Some people _don't_ believe it but will say nasty things just to hurt whoever they are mad at.
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Unsu...
<<Race and racism in America has got to be the most complicated, fucked up social phenomena to emerge in any society in a long time>>
That, in a nutshell, is why I joined this tribe. I am fed up being baffled, angry, infuriated and impotent when it comes to the whole US Dulux colour chart thing and would like to learn why this sad state of affairs continues. I would not join a tribe called <White Men - a celebration of white men everywhere> which shows that even I am not immune to hypocrisy and cherry picking my <-isms>. -
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One should never expect rationality in places more easily filled my muttering, meandering, 'motion.
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You know, I went home last night and really couldn't even watch Seinfeld. It's on about 24 hours a day, and I used to like it and sometimes I watch it. But yesterday, I just couldn't, I felt kind of disgusted. I was forced to watch the latest developments in the Aiken vs. Rippa scandal on Entertainment Tonight. This saddens me.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.I was never a Seinfeld fan anyway, i think i may have watched 10 episodes in my life, usually cause i couldn't find the remote.
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Unsu...
<<But I also sense your defensiveness. >>
You sense wrongly Al.
<< Race in America is one of the most complex collections of issues ever assembled>>
No shit, My contention is that it needn;t be....somehow, it must suit folk for it to be so.
<<White people have control of the institutions and mechanisms that perpetuate these situations.>>
You obviously are not aware of that great Think Tank of our time...the Oprah Winfrey Show.
<<stating that we must take responsibility for all aspects of our condition...>>
You have a *condition*? Assuming you do, what aspects of <responsibility> does that condition exclude you from?
<<That is because you will never be on this side of the line. You will always be seen as a white woman and receive the full benefit of being white in this culture.>>
I like this part best. <the benefits of being a white women> LMAO. If you wish to trade discrimination tales, tales of public humiliation, tales of downright unfair play. Then lets do so. You as a black man and me as a member of the biggest minority on the planet. I warn you now. I aint PC, I dont make concessions and I *will* win...
... (I also warn you that, having spilt a whole glass of diet coke on my keyboard my upper commas dont work...)
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Unsu...
<<Why is this so complicated? When it is not. Black people say nigga. No one else can say it. Period. We told non-black people not to call us that. What is the problem? It is our business what we say to each other>>
For a million reasons, some not even able to be articulated, my humanity screams out at these sentiments. -
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Unsu...
Did you read my entire article? I sincerely doubt it.
You write as if these statements and sentiment are absent of humanity. If that is what you are insuating, then you couldn't have missed the point any better than you did.
What is absent of humanity is slavery.
No matter how you feel or think about it, whatever black people say and do to each other is our business. No one elses. If you are not welcomed to participate, do not force your way in. You will get put back in your place.
Like it or not, it is really that amazingly simple. -
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From this Tribe's summary: "everyone is welcome, but let's make this a tribe with respect and taste."
To me, this means Molly _was_ welcomed to participate, and did _not_ force her way, Janalyn. Hell, as one of her friends, I expressly invited her here. I don't hear her fomenting dissention and continued misunderstanding, but making an honest attempt to grasp concepts re American race relations to which, as an Anglo-European, she is not generally privy.
You said, "You will get put back in your place." Is this not the sort of sentiment to which historically we blacks have reacted most angrily, when it was uttered by other groups who aspired to exclude, ignore, and deny us our due? -
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Unsu...
I think you've lost focus here. The only one disrespectful in this discussion is the subject at hand, Mr. Kramer from the TV show, and you are becoming a close second.
Obviously you all do not read full statements. I don't know you or Molly. I am responding to comments, ideas. Got it?
<You said, "You will get put back in your place." Is this not the sort of sentiment to which historically we blacks have reacted most angrily, when it was uttered by other groups who aspired to exclude, ignore, and deny us our due?>
This buddy means that if you say NIGGA to me, or any other black person, unwarranted, you will be put in your place. You will be told where to go.
In general, if you disrespect me, you bet I will get hostile, and shut your little disrespectul operation down towards me. Now if you act with some sense, respect, and decency towards me then we can work together, and there is no reason for me to put you back in your place, because you are in the right place from the start, a respectful place. Do you understand that?
Trust me, most black folks feel this way. Some blacks unfortunately however are too chicken to say it.
There is alot of bad treatment going on towards black folks in this country in all walks of life, from snide remarks to sabotage (Kramer was just on TV doing it), by too many whites and even immigrants who jump on the "let's chide black folks too" bandwagon, and it needs to stop. The only way it is going to stop is when black folks to start to actively resist this aggression from non-blacks, put people in their place right then and there, and shut their little operation down- Not by intellectualizing and rationalizing the abuse.
A word of advice to you, DO NOT MAKE IT A HABIT OF APOLOGIZING FOR ANOTHER BLACK PERSON'S SENTIMENT, ESPECIALLY ON ISSUES OF DISRESPECT TOWARDS BLACK PEOPLE.
WE DON'T NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU SLOWING DOWN OUR PROGRESS.
WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?
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#1. Let's focus on the fact that Molly brought Janalyn's humanity into question off the bat. So before you jump down Janalyn's throat, understand that Molly implied that Janalyn was being inhuman because of her opinions, which is too deep an insult to communicate in words.
#2. You are extrapolating and taking Janalyn's quotes out of context. She was so thorough that it makes me think you did this deliberately, but that's your demon to wrestle with.
#3. Why is there all this fucking theory about whether or not Kramer or white people can say "nigga"? Let me put it to you like this: Do you think Jerry Seinfeld would fight tooth-and-nail for Kramer or anyone of any other background to have the right to slander Jewish people? If someone walked into your home on Thanksgiving and told you to eat Ham instead of Turkey, and said "Why do you eat Turkey?", would you say they have a right to? We say nigga. It's nobody else's business. I don't give a damn what anyone of another race feels about it because it's none of their business. It's all about respect and It was disrespectful for Kramer to call those guys "niggas" and it was just as disrespectful for Molly to call Janalyn "inhuman". This whole "is this what white people really think about us" mess doesn't matter. I just don't want to hear anything from them about it. As long as they respect my boundaries and leave me the hell alone, they can think Africa is made of green cheese. Just show respect when you see me and keep it moving.
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Unsu...
<<What is absent of humanity is slavery.>>
Agreed. You a slave then?
<<No matter how you feel or think about it, whatever black people say and do to each other is our business. No one elses. If you are not welcomed to participate, do not force your way in. You will get put back in your place.>>
Put back in my place huh? Would that place be before or after a black WOMAN on a black MEN tribe? You are a guest here too darling, at least I *asked* to join....did you?
<<Like it or not, it is really that amazingly simple.>>
Hint: *think* then *type*.......just saying.... -
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Unsu...
<<Let's focus on the fact that Molly brought Janalyn's humanity into question off the bat.>>
If you gonna lie...*tip*....do it about something not in print for all to see.
<<So before you jump down Janalyn's throat, understand that Molly implied that Janalyn was being inhuman because of her opinions, which is too deep an insult to communicate in words.>>
Lets focus on the fact that you and Janalyn are obviously alts (probably of each other). Can you now fuck off so that people who care about this tribe and its POV dont get pissed off and migrate to Myspace simply to read some maturity.
Sorry, but you caught me in my *bored so will reply to any old shit* phase..
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Unsu...
<<I am a free thinker and a fanatic for peace>>
hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
would that be when you are not being a streotypical racist stupid made up profile alt?
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I just hope blackangus is proud. Sheesh.
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>> DO NOT MAKE IT A HABIT OF APOLOGIZING FOR ANOTHER BLACK PERSON'S SENTIMENT, ESPECIALLY ON ISSUES OF DISRESPECT TOWARDS BLACK PEOPLE.<<
>> I just hope blackangus is proud. Sheesh. <<
I make it a habit to not apologise for anyone's sentiment.
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Unsu...
Thank you Jones, for pointing out this ignorance.
Molly's EARLIER - Bullshit comment/insult
<For a million reasons, some not even able to be articulated, my humanity screams out at these sentiments.>
Molly's LATER - Bullshit comment/insult - although the first one was worse...
<Can you now fuck off so that people who care about this tribe and its POV dont get pissed off and migrate to Myspace simply to read some maturity.
Sorry, but you caught me in my *bored so will reply to any old shit* phase..>
This is your humanity Molly? WOW.
Blankangus, you invited her and defending this bullshit? WOW. -
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Unsu...
I'm so late on this discussion... there's alot here but I'm comment on THIS:
<Why is this so complicated? When it is not.
Black people say nigga. No one else can say it. Period. We told non-black people not to call us that. What is the problem? It is our business what we say to each other. And we told whites not to say it anymore. Respect and honor that demand/request. >>
I don't understand non-blacks who will say "You guys say it... why can't I?" A white person who will say nigger will and Can only really say it in degretory manner. the word was DESIGNED for such... to take power away from a black man or woman. It's current incarnation as nigga said by black mouths don't quite echo it's original intent but can. I'll reply any white person who asks me why he can not say nigger or nigga and be non offensive ... "why would you want to use it towards me or in my presence anyway? Whats the use? (unless you WANT to offend me)
Richards used the word in anger to belittle the black hecklers...any way you cut it it was hateful... He shopuldnt be a fucking commedians anyways if his ass cant handle people talking shit through his act. He showed his rear end...and now he is wearing an ass for a face and shitting all over the place.
A friend of mine (arabic) pointed out, though, if Richards would have said "50 years ago we would have had your ass roasting in ovens" to a bunch of jews... this would have been far more controversial and Richards wouldnt have had the chance that Gibson got and he eventually got, because his carear is terminal anyways. Gibson is still a hollywood treasure... Richards actually might even make it through this.
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LOS ANGELES (AP) - Just when it seemed Michael Richards was about to leave the most troubling incident of his career behind, his publicist is having to explain how the comic could consider himself to be Jewish.
Last week, crisis-management expert Howard Rubenstein acknowledged that Richards had shouted anti-Semitic remarks in an April standup comedy routine - well before his appearance earlier this month in which he harangued hecklers with the n-word. But he defended Richards' language about Jews, saying that the comic "is Jewish. He's not anti-Semitic at all. He was role-playing."
As Rubenstein's assertion circulated, Jewish organizations and commentators pointed out that the man who played Cosmo Kramer on "Seinfeld" has not converted to Judaism and neither of his parents are Jewish.
Which makes him ...
"Technically, not having been born by blood as Jewish and not formally going into a conversion, it was purely his interpretation of having adopted Judaism as his religion," Rubenstein told The Associated Press on Tuesday. "He told me, 'I'm Jewish,' when I asked him.
"He said there were two mentors who raised him and who had a big influence on his life, and they were Jewish. He said, 'I agree with the concepts and the religious beliefs of Judaism and I've adopted Judaism as my religion,'" Rubenstein said. "He really thinks of himself as Jewish."
What do some Jews think?
"You can't feel Jewish. It's not a matter of feeling. You can convert to Judaism. You can't not convert to Judaism and then be Jewish," said Rabbi Marvin Hier, founder and dean of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles.
Hier defined being Jewish from two perspectives, if someone hasn't gone through the process of formal conversion.
"From the Orthodox point of view, if that person has a Jewish mother, he would be considered Jewish," Hier said. "In the Reform tradition, there's also a patrilineage. Under those categories, he would not fit."
Rabbi Mark S. Diamond of the 280-member Board of Rabbis of Southern California agreed.
"There are many people who appreciate Jewish customs, who may embrace aspects of Jewish culture and practice, but that does not make them Jewish," he said.
After his tirade came to light, Richards apologized on David Letterman's "Late Show" on CBS, saying his remarks were sparked by anger at being heckled, not bigotry. He also apologized to the Rev. Al Sharpton, and apologized Sunday on the Rev. Jesse Jackson's syndicated radio program.
Rubenstein said Richards wasn't available for an interview Tuesday.
"He wants to rest," the publicist said. "He's been talking to his psychiatrist."